>> wait for it. apple is in the the news again. a pinch that could be used on an iphone screen, pinch and zoom, the patent has been invalidated. look at apple. actually it's going to be up this morning, it's not a major defeat for apple, but an interesting development in the patent wars. pinch and squeeze on that one. apparently that one is no longer an apple patent and we do have new numbers out from rasmussen, look at what they show. almost half of us believe that taking action to treat mental illness will do the most to prevent another tragedy like newtown, compare that to a little more than a quarter of us who think that stricter gun cell laws will do that joining us is scott rasmussen from rasmussen reports who conducted that poll. i'm surprised, i would have thought that with all of this talk about got to get rid of assault weapons, that would be the number one choice of

prevention by most americans, but that's not the case. tell us about it. >> yeah, first of all, 86% do think that we need to do more to identify and treatment mental illnesses and part that have comes from the fact that we look at an incident like this and your reaction is nobody in their right mind could have done it, there's a problem there. 49% seem to think we need to eliminate violence on movies and video games. and those that want gun support laws that's the highest measure, two points higher than the horror at virginia tech five years ago, if you put it together. people want to see something done. they are frustrated, but at the same time, they're pretty pragmatic, only 20% believe it's possible to prevent future things like this from happening. stuart: that's interesting. i would have thought there would have been a straight forward being gung-ho, get those assault rifles out of here and that would be the majority of opinion, but it's not. the majority of opinion take

care of mental illness and let's do something about that is the best way of preventing the massacres. >> and there's another part. we asked specifically about stricter gun control laws. we're going back in the field. we're going to ask about more enforcement the, say background checks and other things, i'm absolutely certain there will be strong support for enforcing laws we have perhaps more diligently than in the past and there will be challenges, but overall, you know, again, what you have is the sense that people want something done. they want to see some action taken. they know that we can't achieve perfect safety, but you know, stuart, if something was done to even save you know, one life in that horror or something could be done to prevent even one future tragedy, that would be a plus. stuart: i am just intrigued, 48% said the best action to prevent future tragedies is to identify mental illness and stop guns getting into the hand of the mentally ill.

that-- that's a revelation to me, i wasn't expecting that, were you? >> no. you know, that was a surprise, that was a big surprise to me, actually. and i think the other part of it and i hate to keep coming back to this point, you know, implementation of any of these things is very difficult. what does identifying and treat mental illness mean? how can you go about it? experts can't tell us and predict who is going to do something like this let's give a good honest look at what can be done. stuart: scott rasmussen, very interesting and glad you brought it to us. >> happy to do it stuart. stuart: and now to something really different. mayan doomsday watchers say that the end of the world is coming, coming tomorrow. not so fast. and we'll go to the mayans themselves-- according to the mayans themselves the world will continue. and steve austin, a best selling

author and wrote a book on the end of the world. we'll challenge him. if the end of the world is ending tomorrow, if the world is ending tomorrow why is he coming on this show and selling a book. i want to ask him. how many books have you sold and ever heard of pt barnum. that's at the top of this coming hour. can't wait for that. now, this is serious, too, there's a big snowstorm and it's hammering the midwest. it's slowing travelers, it's causing flight delays. the storm dumped about a foot on the rocky mountains, a foot of snow. it continues to spread across the midwest and winter storm warnings from colorado to wisconsin and this will affect package delivery and christmas travel and could be millions of people affected by that storm of which we bring you news this morning. another one, you are not spending as much money this christmas season as the retailers expected and once again, the retailers are blaming everything from sandy to newtown.

come on. what's really stopping you from spending money? we'll have an answer, we'll also have the opening bell coming up next. ♪

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>> thursday morning, we're expecting the opening trend to be slightly down on wall street this morning.

i've got two numbers for you in the news background. number one, 361,000 new claims for jobless benefits last week. that's 17,000 more than the previous week. not a good number. 361,000 is way up there, it's a proxy for layoffs, that means that the layoff trend continues far too high for this supposed stage of the economic recovery. item two, in the third quarter of this year, that will be july through the end of september, the economy expanded at a better rate than we thought. 3.1% on an annualized basis, higher than we originally estimate add couple of weeks ago. 3.1%. and this may be a repetition of the pattern we've seen in the last four years which is, you do okay in the summer and early fall and then tail off down again at the end of the year. that 3.1, many people expected 2% or less growth in the fourth

quarter. we shall see. the opening trend on wall street in our-- pretty flat and we're down just 8 points, expecting a loss of anywhere from 20 points to a plus 20 points in the first few minutes of business. however, as usual, i've got a big name that you know, it's a stock, it's a company and it's trading lower this morning. it's a retailer, not a good forecast from bed, bath and beyond and nicole, please? >> i thought were you going to make us guess which one it was. it's big and had a lot of home furnishings, we're talking about bed, bath and beyond and talking a little bit after cautionary tone, cautiously optimistic, it's down here 6% basically for the fourth quarter, it's looking below the market expectations and they talk about weak sales and noting sandy and they've been trying to be up-to-date, trying to work on technology and the website and trying to bring in food and beverages to keep them current and competitive, but obviously, this weak forecast is not good news here

for bed, bath and beyond. >> it's a forecasters got them. i mean, you can always understand that sandy, the hurricane, was a big problem when it happened for bed bath-- i can get that, but when you're forecasting a dismal-- not dismal. >> for the quarter, not the full year. stuart: for the quarter. when you're forecasting weakness that's what gets your stock every time. >> all of those analysts, i was noticing a lot of price target cuts, right, they think the stock will be lower than what they originally thought, credit suisse, 71 instead of a 90 target. most of these companies have kept the ratings outperform, overweight. raymond james kept a strong buy. so, they still think it's a great company. they just don't think it's $90 stock anymore, they think it's more in the $70 range. i tell you one thing, nicole, it's a store that i like shopping, i like bed bath & beyond and i think it-- >> i hope to bump into you there

sometime. >> all the viewers and me as well. stuart: bed bath & beyond actually one example of what we're going to call a larger trend. you're not shopping, at least not as much as expected this holiday season. the research firm shopper track, it has the holiday sales forecast and blamed it on superstorm sandy and the shooting in connecticut and the fiscal cliff. shopper track now says that stores will see a 2.5% increase in november and december, and that's down from the original projection, 3.3% gain. really? sandy? a shooting? fiscal cliff? what about a weakening economy. a few jobs, no money. maybe that's a reason for this. not great, not stellar holiday shopping season and let's bring in carol ross, former investment banker, knows a thing or two about shopping and investment petailers, i'm saying, i'm tired of the excuses. i'm tired of hearing, oh, it's sandy or it's that or that and there's always an excuse when the economy starts to weaken, i

just any the economy is weakening. what do you say? >> well, i agree, i mean, obviously, people have less money, they haven't been working and they're underemployed, but i do think that this is the big piece, stuart, this is pessimism. because you have to remember, even in the face of no money and no job, which has been going on for a while. consumer credit capacity actually has been increasing and consumers have been deleveraging and their home values have been going and theoretically they have more credit capacity, the fact that they're not using that capacity says to me, they're not optimistic about the future. >> i can see that this fiscal cliff thing is a problem. because nobody knows what's going to happen. you have no certainty for next year, so, i can see the fiscal cliff is really dragging the economy down. that i got. i just was expecting shoppers to be out there more gung-ho. i mean, it is three and a half years since the recession ended. we haven't had a real boom for a long time and here you've got a

weak shopping season. that's a surprise to me, sorry. >> it's a surprise to me as well. you would think that couples would have pentup demand and % with this extra capacity be out there spending more and i think it's a huge signal to say whether it's the fiscal cliff, whether it's worrying about being able to get a job or to increase their level of employment, the consumer who usually tends to be more optimistic than they should be right now is saying we're not optimistic and that's a huge issue, stuart.% >> i don't want to put you on the spot, carol, i think that next year, 2013 we'll see a growth rate for the economy between 2 and 3%, i think we're going to bungle along all over again, what do you say. i've been saying the same thing. we characterize it as sluggish growth and i'll be at the lower end of that range. as you say we'll be lumbering and bungling along and look, japan has done that for ten years. i feel like we're in the same position. we don't have a catalyst for growth. we don't have companies who are

investing in the future, instead. they're buying back stock and returning money to shareholders so there really isn't a catalyst for explosive growth right now and that's something that we all as a nation need to be thinking about. >> and i want to change subjects completely and talk about your dear friend piers morgan. okay. earlier in the show, we ran a brief sound bite from a confrontation he has with someone who is pro gun, for want of a better word. i understand that you had a similar run-in with him on the gun issue. let me run again the sound bite where his-- piers morgan, a british guy, comes here, makes a ton of money and look what he's saying to americans. roll it. >> i honestly don't understand why you would rather have people be victims of a crime than be able to defend themselves? it's incomprehensible. you're an unbelievably stupid man, aren't you? >> i think that's incredible. unbelievably stupid man. i don't think he said anything quite as harsh to you, but he had a run-in with you, didn't he?

>> well, we have a long history of run-ins on various subjects and the second amendment has just been one of those and i've been holding my tongue a bit and trying not to speak out on this particular issue because i think the emotions are running so high. here is where i come out on this, stuart. i think that piers is representative of a number of people who are highly emotional and so many of us are after this tragedy, and i think the good news is that we're all as americans coming from the same place. we all want to live in a safer america. we just differ on how to achieve that. where i think the mark is being missed, and for give the pun, is that i feel like the discussion needs to be about the madness, not about the method. so, let's focus on violence as a topic, certainly, guns is one point of discussion, but i think that there is a broader discussion to be had. but nobody can make any progress until we take some of the emotion out of it.

and think about it holistically, we don't want to have unintended consequences and fix one thing and break another, and i think that's where the challange is. the good news we all want to live in a safe america, we need to talk about the best way to achieve that. stuart: that's unbelievely retrained from you, carol. i unleashed earlier on the program against piers morgan and were you restrained. i appreciate that. >> now what, stuart? i'm starting a new party in in america, i'm calling it the common sense party. if you'd like to join me, this is my-- one of my first forays in the common sense party. stuart: no, i'm starting a party, immigrants who love america and are happy in america, that's my party. okay? >> how about a toga party. can we start that, too. stuart: don't get me started with that one. [laughter] >> carol ross, a brilliant discourse. >> thank you, stuart. stuart: new at 10, the federal budget flat-out out of control. it's a spending problem, not a revenue problem and that spending has surged under

president obama. at the top of the hour, find out by how much. also, coming up new at 10, the latest and most critical read on the housing market. existing home sales right there at 10:00 precisely we'll report the numbers when they cross the wires for you. nicole, apple, when we checked pre-market, it was up, now it's -- the market is open. where is it. the stock is virtually flat. back and forth unchanged. and 525.78. and when i say the pinch to zoom, what's that, i have to read and read to figure out what it is. it's when you put your two fingers on a picture and go like this and spread out the picture on the iphone, that's pinch to zoom and that's what apple was trying to get a patent on, but samsung put in papers and talking about the examination of that patent included in documents that were filed by samsung. so, this is a blow to apple. stuart: i use pinch to zoom on the previous iphones and i

believe that apple got a patent on it, but the u.s. patent office just said, no, that's invalid. so he they don't have a patent on it. as you see, no impact on the stock whatsoever, but i like that technology, find it interesting. >> so cool. stuart: surely is. all right, nicole, thank you very much indeed. i'll say it again, dead flat market, down 8 points, all you've got ladies and gentlemen, this thursday morning. time is money, 30 seconds, here is what else we're working on for you. the world's going to end tomorrow, according to the mayans, we'll talk to a man who said, yeah, it could happen. if he really believes it why is he selling books and why will he be on our program? i'll ask him. a woman in kentucky tries to buy ipads with her ebt card. has welfare become a way of life? we'll ask former welfare chief star parker. and time for giving, john stossel joins us for a look at charity. it's thursday morning, it's time i give the 7 early movers.

and disappointing results from amicus their p amicus therapeutics. and the nyse euronext, and acquiring motorola, arris is acquiring, the stock is up a little bit. and accenture and we have all strips health care solutions seeing the ceo stepping down and new management is needed. it's down. better than expected results from jabil circuit. and better than expected, $19 a share, i remember when it was much higher. investors bancorp has agreed to acquire roma financial, and it's up big. and dow industrials are now down about 20 points. higher employment, surging debt, record government spending and recession in europe printing a ton of money.

why isn't the price of gold going through the roof? it's not, you know, we'll have an answer after the break. ♪ >> i love this one, i'm going to read it for you, in case you can't read it yourself. government cannot make man richer, but it did make a man poorer. oh, yes. ♪ decorations for every christmas tree ♪ [ male announcer ] at scottrade, you won't just find us online, you'll also find us in person, with dedicated support teams at over 500 branches nationwide. so when you call or visit, you can ask for a name you know. because psonal service starts with a real person. [ rodger ] at scottrade, seven dollar trades are just the start. our support teams are nearby, ready to help. it's no wonder so many investors are saying... [ all ] i'm with scottrade.

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>> all right. i'm going through the markets for fast. dow jones industrial average is down 16 points. the price of oil broke above $90 a barrel a little earlier this morning and right now at 89.56. now, what is going on with the price of gold? the fed promises to keep on printing trillions and trillions and trillions of dollars, but gold has been relatively flat,

right around $1700 an ounce. this morning, it's actually at 1650. shah gilani with money morning is the man who answers our money questions. there's the question he, why isn't gold going through the roof? >> i think it's simple, i think there are more sellers than buyers. stuart: that's not an answer. >> it may be a little unfair, but what it amounts to. there's some decoupling, and given the monetary easing, not only the united states, japan has been easing china has been easing and around the world easing and you would expect the gold to be higher. stuart: you would. paper currencies are not worth what they used to be worth. the euro, for example, the u.s. dollar, for example, the british pound. i mean, this is paper currency under threat. at times like that, you expect gold to go straight up. well, it it had a nice run, but now, even though the fed is printing and printing and

printing and the japanese and the europeans join in, the best answer you've got there are more sellers than buyers? >> in terms of monetary easing, the general expectation for inflation down the road. gold would be steady and rising, it's not. that's because gold is now a tradeable asset class. it's no longer a hedge and what it used to be. and the decoupling because they're selling it as they would any stock, etf, or apple. and there are sellers than buyers because of year end sellers and pressure hedge funds have been experiencing and selling off winners. gold is seeing some of the same thing. >> that's interesting, gold is not the market that it used to be. >> no. stuart: if you can trade at an ounce a moment's notice and a lot of people are doing that it's not what it used to be. all right. now tell me about gold mining shares and that's the way that

people used to get into gold. >> yes. >> and they're weighed down? >> they're down an average between, i'd say probably in the 30% change, hat highs. a disconnect between the miners and gold itself. then again, you've got the effect of etf's, for example. there are several ways to play gold in terms of the physical gold and you've got very, very large hedge funds, holding some very large positions and they may be doing some year end selling in there, also, and again, it really comes down to goal as an asset class that traders and speculators are looking at. not the traditional role that gold plays, but a way to make money. >> you own it. >> no, looking 150 support level, right around there. stuart: but nothing at the moment. >> no. stuart: would you join my new party, immigrants who just love to be in america?

>> i'm all in. >> you are. >> 100%. >> you're an immigrant yourself. >>? i am. >> shah gilani, always a pleasure, thank you very much indeed. >> try this one, gerard depardieu is leaving france over higher taxes while he's willing to let go of his passport not going to give you up the frommage, that would be the cheese. ♪

>> gerard depardieu is leaving france and moving to belgium, but he's taking cheese with him. yep, he was spotted in a paris cheese shop yesterday and depardieu moving to anew high-- avoid new higher taxes in france. . >> and i love he's had a quintuple bypass and he's buying cheese. stuart: wait a minute, i didn't

know he had a quinn ttuple bypa. >> and someone exercises their rights as a citizenship and avoids higher taxes and i say it [speaking french] . stuart: i any comment, charles. charles: he paid 145 million euros in taxes. 145 million euros in taxes and amazing. >> over 45 years. stuart: wow. charles: and i mean, this is a job creator that they're chasing out this have country and by the way, you know what else is going on, and the children of the rich are shipped out. even the rich in spain, the children all of them are saying to their kids study and live abroad. their foundation for the future is eroding. stuart: that number, 145 million euros, that's that's about 180 million bucks, he's paid that in his lifetime and the french government says that's not enough, we want more.

>>. charles: according to hollande, it's not his fair share. >> and why, if the government is going to take three quarters of it. stuart: a patriotic duty to pay your fair share. you know i don't mean that-- >> and how our spending has gone up and plus the latest and most important read on the housing numbers. breaking numbers for you at the top of this hour.

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stuart: new at 10:00 federal spending far outpacing revenues, new revenues just how bad it is. even the mayan save the world will not end tomorrow but we have an author who points at two scientific reasons that it will end tomorrow. i may call him a modern-day p.t. barnum. that is in a couple minutes. the average is down 30 points, we're at 13,221. a slew of data coming out as we speak, i have seven seconds to wait, a really important housing number. this is the existing home sales number for the month of november. and housing sector really is one

of the healthier parts of the economy, and a good investment as a single-family home in a nice neighborhood. that is what i have been saying. up 5.9% in november, that will be compared to the month before, october. that is interesting. existing home sales in november compared to october, and 10.1% year over year. >> that is double the 2.1 increase from september to october. housing inventories at a decade low, and nationwide housing may have bottomed out, and -- [talking over each other] stuart: existing home sales proceeding at an annual pace of $4.9 million. that is way off of the pace you get from 2004-2005, but close to

five million existing home sales, realtors will like that. charles: i agree 1,0000. people who have been thinking about buying our going to be feeling like the trend has fallen out of the station. if you try to pick the bottom of housing there's a sense of urgency. stuart: there's a philly fed number coming up with the reading of 8 against 8.1% versus a reading of 10, expected previously. dow industrials, no reaction down 22 points. i will say very good numbers on housing. would you agree with that? liz: no surprise about the philly fed and the gains in home prices boost consumer finances and sentiments which underpins household spending. stuart: you think philly fed is an important number. i hate to use this jargon. charles: you get to the heart of

the matter. stuart: the mid-atlantic region, you get a reading of 8 vs 10. charles: i look for inflation, and we're simply bumping along with certain hot spots like housing but overall the economy is still in trouble. trouble may be the wrong word but not living up to its potential. stuart: i have ups i think today is their busiest day of the year. >> we heard from fedex a week ago. ups is saying this is their busiest day, i badgered my doorman asking where are my christmas packages. everyone is rushing to get these packages in before the big day, it is up half%. this is the dave ups.

stuart: 1 thirty-five million packages shipped around world by ups this week. nicole: and where is my? stuart: thank you very much. the u.s. government as a spending problem but not revenue problem. said spending up 70% from 1998, not adjusted for inflation. spending is increasing at twice the rate that revenue is increasing. >> always talking about we are in a crisis. a budget by secret committee's or gangs of 6 or 8, that is a problem. that is why we can't get spending under control because the senate is not doing their job. passing a budget every year. charles: every time something happens it is another reason to spend more money.

something is wrong. we need a lot of things in this country but there is no way spending should be outpacing everything else, particularly as the american public over the last five years cut back on everything, mortgage debt, credit card debt. the only thing is student loan debt. remarkable we can continue down this road when we know inevitably where we hit a brick wall. you can argue when but we know we will. liz: but never budget balancing act has got to stop. stuart: president obama will not address the spending issue. he will not. stuart: charles: he has americans so afraid even if you are 20 don't want social security touched. are we going to protect 1-year-old babies? at some point someone says bite the bullet. we need to learn history. maybe we need to understand what happened to people who came to this country with nothing in the very beginning, early colonists

had to resort to cannibalism. [talking over each other] charles: we have to understand sacrifice at some point is required from all americans. liz: the heart of the matter is politicians who manufacture dependency usually benefit from it. charles: no doubt about it but at the end of the date they love this country they should not want their own political gain but to continue to be the greatest country in the world. stuart: politicians are there to get reelected. can you get reelected in america today to anything, dogcatcher included diffuse a sacrifice? you can't. charles: maybe someone learned to articulate in a way that makes sense that helps that people understand history and understand what people came before us went through and put themselves in that position because it is that duty to have to do this. stuart: moving on, all this debate over gun control to

restrict gun sales has had the opposite effect. more people are buying guns right now worried they won't be able to bottom later. many wal-mart stores sold out of certain types of semi-automatic weapons. gun magazines selling on the internet for very inflated prices. cheaper than dirt.com is a huge internet gun seller. is going to start selling guns again very soon. the biggest online and seller has temporarily halted firearms sales, going to review its policies and resume sales soon and listen to this, the nra has signed up 8,000 new members everyday in the past week. we will hear from the nra on this issue tomorrow. press conference is planned. what do you make of this? charles: people who own guns have a legitimate concern that ultimately the tragedy will be used to not just go after assault rifles and enhancements but to go after their guns.

three hundred million guns were not used in that massacre, people are legitimately afraid they're going to lose those rights. liz: i am horrified by the trend. it is appalling. we have too many guns in this country. we have to get rid of the loophole that allows people to buy essentially assault weapons from -- without a background check. i don't think those should be on the street at all. we need save the commission that regulates toy guns and the national highway traffic commission and the safety administration monitoring cars and protecting people from cars. we need more government protection from too many guns. stuart: there must be millions of assault weapons out there in america today. if you ben them are you banning future sales or are you saying the government should go out and collect assault weapons? liz: cities have been doing it

right asking people to forfeit and hand over their guns. i don't want to live in a country with everybody having a gun. it is a terrible lawful or if it trend given what happened last friday. stuart: anything to add? charles: i think the nra will say something to the effect that they are willing to compromise with respect to certain, quote, assault rifles but the notion, you bring up a great point because the same people that say there's no way to round up thirty million illegal immigrants and get out of the country are saying we could round up three hundred million guns and dispose of them in yucca mountain somewhere. stuart: last friday's horrific effect in connecticut that created a >> in public opinion, it was an event which will change future policy. no matter what -- charles: when the president spoke he immediately said he was for the second amendment. [talking over each other] liz: senator john rockefeller as saying listen, the impact of violent video games have to be taken into account.

hollywood remains silent on the impact on general culture. stuart: that is a good one. i want to change subjects completely. are you ready for this? are you ready for the end of the world? there are two potential cataclysmic events that could happen tomorrow. a volcano on one of the canary islands could erupt causing a 3,000 ft. high mega tsunami that would wipe out all of the east coast, for the supervolcano at yellowstone could erupt blanketing the earth's atmosphere cutting off the sun and creating an ice age, so says our next guests. the author of phobos, the mayan fear. welcome to the program, good to see you. >> thank you for having me. >>, both of these old? >> hard to tell. and international best-seller. stuart: give me a rough outline?

tens of thousands? 100,000? >> could be tens of thousands. stuart: when you don't know? >> i am hoping your interview will help. stuart: get to the point. how many have you sold? you know. tell me. >> the book came out a few months ago so it is hard to tell. stuart: how many have you sold so far? give me the information. >> the series has sold over a million copies internationally. stuart: how much do you make per book sold? >> pennies on the dollar. stuart: calm many pennies on the dollar? >> i don't know. i am not sure how that is relevant. stuart: this is a financial program. very relevant. you put out a book scaring everybody to death and you sold over a million copies of it and you are not going to -- i want to know how much you have made out of this. >> my purpose isn't to scare people to death. stuart: you published a book,

you're making a great deal of money and i want to know how much. >> not enough worth mentioning to be honest with that series. stuart: not enough even to worth mentioning. >> a moving comes out it is a different story. the significance of the book is to warn people about things that are out there and also i heard you mentioned earlier about sacrifice, when things went bad for the mayan they turned to human sacrifice. what concerns me is we are turning to human sacrifice ourselves. a couple months ago i heard a capitalists say all the things you just mentioned before i came on the air can be resolved by one simple line -- stuart: i am terribly sorry, i got another interview and got to go to it. we appreciate you being on the show. out of time. the new york stock exchange

getting taken over, for more than $8 billion. here is what we want to know. will those 4 traders still be there or will we go to computers? charlie gasparino on the floor of the stock exchange with duncan neiderauer. charlie: not just duncan neiderauer but jeff springer. i want to get this clear. the millions are predicting the end of the world at the end of december and the nyse-listed sells the intercontinental exchange. is there any connection here? of the world ends tomorrow i guess that is an execution risk we have not tracked into the confirmation, let's hope the mind are wrong. >> i think it is an amazing building 200-year-old institution being taken over by a 20 year institution. how does that happen? >> 12 the year. >> you overstate my age. what is interesting is the new york stock exchange is a network

that started 200 years ago but today you could start a network and you and i have been a part of watching networks create organically quickly, that is what technology has done, what facebook is, what amazon is, what ebay is so my company created a network that grew quickly, very complementary to the network that 200 years ago some guys decided on. >> which is? >> stocks traded here, you guys essentially a black box that trades commodities. it isn't black. [talking over each other] charlie: this is what i heard how this deal materialized. last year you tried to take over the stock exchange and he doesn't hold that against you and you don't hold against him. michael corleone says it is a great attribute but here is what i heard. at that point there is an

analyst who came to you and said why don't we deal with you where you talk about a deal land use that i will do a deal but duncan won't give up ceo and ridge went to you and you said you would do -- better for the shareholders. i don't know where you get your information. >> was this another -- where your the best bartender -- >> business is business. jet approached me this year. we cleaned the slate. how much exercise, several weeks ago -- [talking over each other] >> we did this pretty quickly and our view is the time is right for both of us. let's see if we can get this done. he is the bessie e o in the exchange industry in my view but i am happy to be president of the company alongside jeff, the ceo. teams have been working great together. it is about shareholder value. if you see an opportunity to transform the company like i

thought we did here and change the trajectory of the company and combine with someone we always thought was a great team to combine with and a great leader of the or their organization i promise you there's no controversy here. we literally didn't talk about it because it was obvious jeff should be the ceo and i am happy to stay as president. >> you see the floor? there are people still here, you're an electronic guide, there will still be for trade. >> absolutely. these people prevented flash crashes and they are here in times of emergency. i was one of hundreds of people on the telephone when the hurricane sandwich coming through and we were all asking how should the markets work and everybody turned to duncan and asked what are we going to do? in times of stress, this economy turns to the new york stock exchange. to the people that are here, there's a reason there is an american flag wrapped around a front of the region and the reason there are hundreds of

tourists. charlie: you are committed to the floor traders. >> absolutely. with this name. the company will be more focused on this and i will be less spread out. a more capable derivatives team takes care of this and there will be discussions about the european exchange assets and policiesmakers will have them back and we opened the door yesterday to say that is the call so that gives me the opportunity to be more focused on the brand. charlie: you have been itching to do something else. is this your exit strategy? >> it is shareholder value creation. if you try something you thought was a good idea it doesn't mean you give up. i have committed to stay for the end of 2014 and if we are working together it will be longer. i am not looking for one. charlie: i want to ask you this, you created tremendous

shareholder value, kind of behind-the-scenes, headquarters here or in atlanta? >> both places and i will behind-the-scenes. [talking over each other] charlie: duncan neiderauer -- >> i'm not a good public face and he is great at it. >> what jeff and i agree on, we won't get into the name of what the new company will be but the brand which i feel has been an unbelievable platform for us to do great things for and with our customers i am happy to continue to be the face of that brand and a deputy in the new company. charlie: before i wrap this up -- i am good like that. you can't get rid of the nyse, can you? >> no. it is inscribed on a front of the building in limestone. i don't know what the group will be called. we haven't talked about it. >> you have the eyes brand, what we are committing to is all

brands will survive but we won't get into the name game. everyone should have a nice holiday. >> between us we will be operating 14 global exchanges in five clearinghouses. [talking over each other] >> we were saying that last night on the way back from london, if i scott their field done and we got our deutsche boerse deal done we would not be having the pleasure of your company. >> nasdaq hostile takeover. >> no. at the time i did that deal wanted to do that deal. [talking over each other] >> i have aspirations. charlie: we will leave that to another interview. back to you. ashley: thank you. back to the markets. i want to show you the dow industrial average up seven points, not much of the gain, not much of a reaction to the background which is positive, solid numbers on the housing industry. a very tiny gain for the dow. people in the united states give

a greater percentage of their income to charity than anywhere else in the world but john stossel asks is it better to be greedy than give to charity? he is here. john stossel is here one more time on this program. john: to be abused by you? stuart: is it better to be greedy than charitable? that is not a moral question. [talking over each other] john: i would say for most of us know, we should give to charity because we are kind of useless as tv hosts but you -- if you are an entrepreneur, you are creating jobs, creating wealth in your business, and they get guilt into giving to charity so that there will be -- again these lifetime achievement awards and they talk for a minute about their business and ten minutes about their community service and charity work and that is good, they

should do that, but the amazing thing was the business, they created enormous wealth which allowed them to give to charity and they created jobs which live on after them. business is vilified. if you can create jobs you're doing a wonderful thing. charles: i like when you go on to this. when i see commercials like bp promoting solar energy i think come on, give me a break. you were browbeaten into this and built in to this and your point couldn't they have hired people with that money? it is a modern-day shakedown, what this is all about. john: a modern-day shake down, the green shakedown. stuart: it is not necessary because aren't we as individuals in america more generous than any other people in the world? don't we as individuals give a lot more? john: we give much more than people anywhere else. conservatives give more than liberals but we can always give more. the more cheri can replace government programs for for people better off people are. stuart: how do you know when

you're giving to charity it is legitimate? how do i know the money and give to x why is he actually goes to the ground floor, to the people directly to the people who needed as opposed to the administration of the charity? john: that is what much of my show is about tonight and the answer is you don't really know. there are these guys like charity navigator and new ones we will talk about but the good news is by and large it does, and bill o'reilly always says i want this jury season, point out the charity scams, and we do but there are not many. stuart: that is interesting. we are the most generous people in the world and the charities we give to are legitimately run for the most part. john: there are three levels. business is the most efficient, charity next because in business this division is losing money, it fires a ceo and you don't want -- how come i fire her?

stuart: a successful business is the best form of charity because it creates wealth. i like you. always a pleasure. we will see tonight at 9:00 eastern on the fox business network, great stuff. we have a spending problem, taxpayers don't have enough money to spend at the stores loan fund the government. my take on all of that next.

>> we don't have a catalyst for growth for companies investing in the future, they're buying back stocks and returning money to shareholders, there really isn't a catalyst for explosive growth right now and that is something we all need to be thinking about. stuart: carol roth in the last hour talking about why we are spending not as much as expected this christmas. we will hear from the people at shopper track on this program a later written:45. time for market check. look at the big board, dead flat, down 0.65. merck, high-profile collector all drug fails, it is not going

to seek u.s. approval of that drug. is no better at preventing heart attacks or deaths or strokes, the stock please. nicole: that doesn't sound good. dow component merck is down 2.5%, down over $1. the name of the drug is a medicine that will increase the good cholesterol so the good part comment as you noted, findings are not substantial and they're not able to move forward with the drug. you were talking about the other british guy on cnn, my mother wrote in and said tell varney whenever he starts his party, immigrants who are happy in america, my mother wants to volunteer. she was born in cyprus, came over on a boat to ellis island, she and her siblings were very poor. did very well in this country. stuart: the party of people who are happy to be in america, love to be here. we want to stay.

that is my party. charles: i am in. honor remembers him. stuart: thanks very much for providing that. the use of food stamps surging. people increasingly reliant on government hand out. coming up in a few minutes former welfare cheat star parker is here, why we have become an entitlement nation, how easy it is to do that. stuart: i have some numbers for you. told on. i will not make your eyes glaze over. i will make your hair stand on end. here's my take on the spending problem. over the last 15 years the tax money flowing into washington has gone up 3% year. we had the bush tax cuts and two recessions but the cash coming in consistently went up. sounds like we should be in good shape. we are not in good shape because

spending went up twice as fast and the biggest bulge in spending occurred in a last four years under president obama. let's look at this objectively. tax revenues keep rising but we spend it all and then some. that is why we go deeper and deeper into debt. fast forward to the present and we see president obama refusing to offer real restraints on spending. he wants to spend more. worse yet in my opinion he is the connecticut shooting to push his tax and spend position. the use that terrible event to impose surrender or try to on john boehner. here are the dollar numbers. we spend $3.5 trillion a year and at $1 trillion to our debt every year. we will be $20 trillion in debt in four years and that is being optimistic. i don't think president obama will get to grips with spending. i think he wants to transform america. he will raise taxes on up you and redistribute to the many who

then vote for him and his party. that is not leadership. is not going to return to prosperity. we are stuck with a spending problem.

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plunged to minus 50 degree fahrenheit, their enduring their harshest winter in 70 years, russia seeing temperatures tend to 15 degrees lower than normal this winter. 45 people dead, two fifty cents to the hospital because of cold weather in winter in russia. a woman in louisville trying to buy two ipads with an electronic benefits transfer card and basically what we would call cash welfare. she was the ninth, ran out of the store trying to steal the ipads, one example of what we call the entitlement culture. welfare and food stamps are not a stop gap. they have become a way of life. joining us is star parker, founder of cure, a reformed welfare cheat to. along time since you have been with us. you have been way too long. >> glad to be back with you. stuart: i want to talk about this edt cash card.

this lady was trying to buy ipads with it. what you could buy with the edt card was heavily restricted but apparently it is not. tell me. >> you have a fee to got caught shoplifting but the bigger problem is this massive government program. like all government programs is drenched with fraud and abuse. think about this particular industry, the food stamp part, a $71 billion industry. have 200,000 retailers who accept this card because it is so much easier than paper. anyone who has any type of food like walmart where she is trying to do her theft accept these cards, this has grown over the last ten years by 40% of retailers who are part of the business and it is big business, not just the person abusing the taxpayer by accepting these

bbnefits but also the program because now we have massive bureaucracy that has to look for this fraud and abuse in these different retail outlets. stuart: is it easy to live off of handouts? you get your food stamps, cash card, renton contacts credit, disability payments, did you find it easy when you were doing it? >> for myself personally it was reckless, but it is not easy but you can learn the system and deal with that type of life. no need to pretend that the poor among us live well. they don't in more cases than not leading california where i was getting benefits are live in an apartment that had a jacuzzi in the back, subterranean garage, fireplace inside the there are other states where people are not living like that. in washington d.c. i was one of the more impoverished communities, what happens is you learn how to manipulate the

system, one of the reasons marriage has broken down in poor communities, one person can be living in households of the other parent but one qualified for benefits as long as they don't mary. what has broken down in el welfare society is the test in washington, not the recipient's fault 100%. this bureaucracy in washington you want to have a fiscal crisis for fiscal quick debate let's talk about $400 billion in poverty programs we spend every year. stuart: let me go back to what you are doing in california when you were living on benefits. what did you get? you got food stamps, cash welfare, rental allowance, heating and cooling. what did you get? >> it is more comprehensive than that because you get 100% day care paid and 100% medical. all your medical is covered regardless what it is. you could have a scratch on your knee and going to the emergency room and get back cover for yourself and your hildren.

you get a subsidy and placed on a list to get into subsidized housing and/or can't think of the name of the program is all about the hud programming so you get your housing ssbsidies. you also as you are saying that the subsidies for your food and those food subsidies under the department of agriculture are massive. not just food stamps. you qualify for food at school, it is that very twinkie and bureaucratic system we have developed a we should start peeling away. stuart: if you know how to play it you are telling me you can get everything. >> it is easy to know how to play it because your case worker will help you know what other benefits are available. the minute you sign up they tell you everything else you can get and you just have to move through it. now with the internet, up all the government websites will tell you what else you qualify

for. and you are not married to the person who is -- stuart: when you are in california did anybody come around and check on you? >> we ridge talking 30 years ago, and this is part of the fraud. my case worker didn't show up, she called me and said she wanted to go to lunch with her girlfriend. pretend she came by. there are problems in the system with bureaucrats. it is not just a recipient, that is why we spend time dealing back these bureaucracies by stopping this massive spending in washington d.c.. stuart: we are out of time but an interesting window on the way you live. charles has been itching to make a comment. charles: this whole thing with cory booker, he lived on the snap program, $33 a week, it

stands for supplemental nutrition, you get welfare, no one is living off of that $33, children going to school hungry. if they are they haven't the point in one of these programs, designed to build the rest of the country, and power the government to the point elizabeth macdonald said to get people on dependency. we have this faustian bill, i will take care of you -- >> i went through benefits.gov, there were 55 programs decades ago offered for entitlement programs. now there are a thousand. here are some you may not know about, may not realize selectively telling people how to take advantage, i am for helping the poor, you do get to peel back and look at what is going on. stuart: this would not do it

better. i wonder about that. one radical move but i wonder about it. retail sales are slowing, stores blamed the weather, events in newtown, we will talk to someone who has the numbers and the reasons next. ♪ [ cows moo ] [ sizzling ] more rain... [ thunr rumbles ] ♪ [ male announcer ] when the world moves... futures move first. learn futures from experienced pros with dedicated chats and daily live webinars. and trade with papermoney to te-drive the market. ♪ all on thinkorswim. from td ameritrade.

stuart: plenty of economic numbers out today but none having that much impact.

dow industrials pretty flat up 18. economic growth, third quarter is higher to 3.1%, existing home sales up 5% in november compared to october and the freddie mac mortgage rate up a little, 3.37%. look at the shares of eloqua. somebody is buying it, it went published in august and makes software that helps companies see how effective their marketing campaigns are. all their shares -- back in 90 seconds.

>> miss universe 2012 is -- stuart: they will long time. that was olivia, the new miss universe representing the united states in that hadn't. she is from rhode island. road island has $11 billion worth of debt. does not seem like a lot compared to california or ellen like but it is a tiny state, $11 billion in debt, right with core russian too but they do

have a beauty queen. now to our ever lovely nicole petallides who was following retail. nicole: i want to look at j.c. penney and macy's, both have down arrows. j.c. penney is down 4.4%. shopper traffic is talking about what shoppers the doing as far as their shopping and they are lowering the forecast for holiday sales this season, citing discounts they are seeing, hurricanes and the stepping in and they expect foot traffic to increase, they are seeing fewer sales for lower sales. people are pinching volatile little bit. stuart: not as good as we were expecting. thanks very much. joining us by phone is shopper track founder bill martin. you are projecting a gain of 2.5% for holiday sales. is that just in brick and mortar stores? >> yes, happy holidays to you. that is taken into

consideration, consumer behavior at the brick and mortar stores and we consider all manner of retail whether it is a mall, strip center, high-speed ball. stuart: that is interesting because online sales are way up. i am reliably informed. your number does not include that. >> it does not. we keep a close eye on it because it is an important part of the retail complexity. we see that growing double digits but it only represents 8% to 9% of total retail, 91% of retail still taking place in the brick and mortar stores. stuart: we mentioned a moment ago that the reason for this weakness in brick and mortar sales is a lot of discounting going on so the dollar volume is not what it could have been. is that part of the deal? >> it is part of the deal and a lot of complexity -- we have a lot of interesting events that have occurred, tragic events that occurred. all of that weighs on the psyche

of the consumer. we see them headed to stores from a foot traffic standpoint, they are stingy with the dollars they are putting out there. stuart: reasons and york numbers figure into that. thanks very much for joining us. we appreciate your numbers. thank you. sales of the books surging, flat out surging, billions spent last year. next, a best-selling author on the future of books. will the brick and mortar publishers suffer? guess they will.

excuse me, sir i'm gonna have to ask you to power down your little word game. i think your friends will understand. oh no, it's actually my geico app...see? ...i just uh paid my bill. did you really? from the plane? yeah, i can manage my policy, get roadside assistance, pretty much access geico 24/7. sounds a little too good to be true sir. i'll believe that when pigs fly. ok, did she seriously just say that?

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stuart: e-book sales topped $2 billion in this past year and are expected to bill a lot higher. i believe that $2 billion number is double what it was the year before. clearly the books are running away with the publishing business. how much does an author make when they publish a book electronically versus a hardcover book? i have a guy with the answers, the author of the fief of legend. you are looking at the hardback copy right there. welcome back. would you rather put out a book

on an e. publishing or hard copy? >> for volume i like the ecb but for exposure i like a hard cover. stuart: how much du like for each book used electronically versus hardcover? if it is $1 per e-book publishing, is it $2 or $3? >> $3 for the hardcover, dollar and change for the e-book. stuart: will this guy out our back? >> i don't. you have traditional people that love to feel it in their hands. they love to hold on to the book, but i watched my sales grow phenomenally. 75% of sales come from there but it is not going to lose these people. in won't lose the person who likes to cut in their back and climbing to bed, just don't have that same visceral feeling. stuart: i think one of the disadvantages of an e-book is you can't share it. >> as an author? best thing in the world.

people use to share books the way people share music. now they can't share the book. they won't give you their kindle. mrs. jones in cincinnati love your book and is not going to give it to her mother or her sister or brother, they have to download it. stuart: if i have a kindle and an e-book on i can forwarded to-can't give it to charles, i must take a physical kindle fire or whatever it is and give it to charles. >> charles has to download it and thank you for it. [talking over each other] stuart: but the e-book surge use the e-book people lot more power. they will squeeze out the hard copy guys. >> they will to certain extent. i think this will survive. i think it will be -- you have people who want it in hard cover but you -- given the marketing affect you walk into a store, you get to see the book and feel the book. liz: the justice department as

the suit against apple for colluding to keep prices high and i'm wondering if consumers will say wait a second, why would i buy an e-book if the price is doubt? penguin just settled yesterday. that suit is out there and consumers have got to say my going to be overcharged? >> it is interesting. when a hardcover comes out priced at 12, 10 or $9.99 and when it is out in paperback prices dropped again similar to paper. stuart: the margin for the e-book publisher is higher. >> production costs, distribution costs. distribution is nothing. stuart: you don't see it all going to beat the book. >> i don't. in music you have people who like the cd, some record labels to release a couple final just for people's entertainment. stuart: i still like the 8 track. i care what you are saying. thank you very much. >> thanks for having me.

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stuart: the highlight reel. moving to avoid new higher taxes on the wealthy. >> europeans are so boastful on their union. stuart: get me out of this. >> i love that this is a gentleman who has had a quadruple bypass. stuart: that is about $180 million. charles: the children's of the rich are being shipped out. stuart: i do want to repeat that number. that is not enough. you have to pay more. you have to start paying your